Leading, not pulling. I get it now.
Okay. So I tried to understand what the cowboy was telling me about “leading” cows as opposed to “pushing” them…his symbolic way of trying to give me advice about how best to approach independent cowboys like him when you want them to do something like, oh I don’t know, marry you.
Here’s an email he sent after reading this post this morning.
Hi, love.You’re still not quite grasping this whole ‘lead vs. drive’ thing, babydoll. Let me see if I can explain it a little better. (No need to change your post, just for your personal edification.)It’s not about enticing, or luring. Most animals (and most cowboys) can figure out pretty quickly when they’re being lured. When you lead an animal, a horse for instance, you have a halter on them (kind of like a bridle, but no bit). Attached to the halter is a “lead rope”. While positioning yourself a little to the left of their head, you walk in the direction you want to go, and they follow next to you. Hence, you’re asking them to accompany you. You’re not pushing them into something from behind (driving), and you’re not facing them trying to lure or entice them…… …………………..again, you’re asking them to accompany you…….you’re going together.Hence, my phrase….”I ‘lead’ a lot better than I ‘drive’.”
Okay…thank you. Sorry I can’t seem to wrap my brain around this. I guess it just seems to me that being pulled by a halter is not a whole lot better than being shoved from behind…? Am I incorrect in thinking that in either leading or pushing, the animal is being controlled by the human, the human is in charge? I don’t think that’s quite how YOU work, making the analogy not quite perfect for us…seems you prefer to make your own decisions about where you go…?
At any rate, we know I’m not much good at training animals. I prefer to be the cow in this equation. You be the cowboy.
Not ‘pulling’ dear……’leading’. It’s all about nuance. Remember what I said about things being more readily learned when you put an animal in a situation where he learns on his own rather than forcing it on him? Like Taz (ranch dog) figuring out that by jumping out of the pickup HE puts him in a bad position………rather than me forcing that knowledge on him. If you pull on a horse’s halter, he’s more likely to balk……if you just start walking (lead rope slack), most times he’ll follow on his own.‘Leading’ is asking………’pulling’, or ‘driving’ is in effect, telling.
I get it.
Having never done it, this was a hard one to visualize.The key phrase? “Follow on his own.”Amazingly complex and nuanced concept, actually…and might belong on the list of Best Good Oxymorons, Ever.
Tagged: cowboys, leading a cow, love, ranch life, relationships
Here’s a good way to think about this: a horse learns to learn by a good release from pressure, given at the right time. So if we want to teach our horse to “lead” we teach him to search for the release. If we want to teach him to sulk or pull back or balk, we can pull on him (drag him) instead of it being his idea to to come with us because that is the most comfortable place to be- free from pressure (or in the case of semantics) he’s in a comfortable position because we’re releasing him to follow on a slack “lead” rope. Eventually they follow us because horses and cowboys want to be comfortable.
I love it. So perfect, this analogy. So much women could learn about men from studying animals…
Your cowboy explained it pretty well!
If horses ‘think’ it’s their idea or have learned from experience (like the dog) that they will only hurt themselves, they ‘want’ to go along. When something different is being introduced, they need the time to figure it out. Once they do, they’re a partner in it & want to do it. Patience is the key here!
I know it’s hard to get a handle on if you’ve never
worked with horses (or dogs). When you’re at the
ranch, watch and you will see it.
I think this is why and how the cowboy is so good with my son, too…same concept.
We could learn about our men by studying animals. hmmmmmmmm. I am a city girl, not by choice, but by love, and the only “animal” I have to study to learn about Jim, is an old, dusty, crusty boxer named Rusty. He is asleep in his chair, on his back, with all four legs sticking straight in the air, snoring LOUDLY!! (I am talking about Rusty here, not my Jim!) However, he is the sweetest most gentle dog (so is Jim), generous, (so is Jim!!), patient and forgiving(hmmmm, so is Jim), can’t wait to be wrapped up in my arms covering me with kisses (again, like Jim!!!!) hmmmmmmmm, I think I am getting it!!!!!!
Aww. You guys sound adorable. Very happy for you both.
If you have RFD TV, watch Chris Cox or Clinton Anderson work with horses. Then you’ll really SEE what we’ve all been saying, instead of just having to sees it in your mind!
All due respect, Dee (And Alisa I’m not trying to stir up controversy), Chris Cox and Clinton Anderson, while very handy, and extremely successful, are not the best examples of this. Alisa- if you’ve not watched Buck the Film or seen Buck Brannaman handle a horse, I suggest you do so now. You will learn more about your cowboy, yourself and horses from that man in that 80 minute film (or any one of his DVDs; or his books- The Faraway Horses and Believe) than you will from 30 minutes with either of the above two mentioned people.
Here’s why I say this- Chris and Clinton expect and teach people that horses will make mistakes. My belief is that horses don’t make mistakes. They can only be a horse. So they try. They try do what we ask, and they may not make the choice we’re after. At which point, the aforementioned may get after said horse. Buck, and those of us who practice Brannaman/Hunt style horsemanship, will simply set it up and ask again, so our horses never learn to resent us. If you, or anyone, has watched Buck’s horses and then go to watch Clinton’s or Chris’ horses, the difference is clear. Clinton/Chris’ horses swish they their tails, or even have a grouchy expression on their face, and they may do what they’re asked but they not as willing a partner as I’ve seen. Now, what they do works for them (and many others and that’s fine- we are all on our own journey (-: ), which leads me to share my motto: Do what you believe in or believe in what you do. Either way you have to believe in it to make it happen.
You also have to realize that until you’re really aware (ask your cowboy about being 15-20 seconds ahead of a cow or a horse to get a further clarification on awareness), and really good at having the world operate around you (because you’re always aware) in an all good manner (meaning there’s no drama, and no matter what life throws your way you’re “good”), the easiest way to accomplish what you want is to set it up and wait to make the right thing the easiest as opposed to the wrong thing hard (this applies to horses, dogs, men, kids, cowboys…)
Plz understand that I have the utmost respect for both Buck and Ray Hunt. I am old enough that I remember when Mr. Hunt first bust on to the scene and started ‘growing’ his following! The major difference (and I’m speaking from personal experience here) is tha Chris and Clinton actually DO something with thier horses. They don’t just have clinics teaching others what to do, they go out and win real Championships, use their horses in rodeo, horse shows, AND on the ranch. That’s a big difference between what Chris and Clinton do, what Buck does now, and what Ray Hunt did in his day.
I also learned – even though I was very young – from Lee Rebrorse (spelling might be wrong). Lee and his brother owned a big ranch in Nevada. They loved to catch mustangs, train them, then take them to the really big reining horse shows (the ones that didn’t require a ‘papered’ horse) and beat the pants off those ‘well bred’ horses. They won everywhere from Salinas to the Cow Palace! Then they decided to sell out and move lock, stock and barrel to Austrialia! There Lee proceeded to change the horsemanship for the whole country! Lee and Ray Hunt were on the same page – EXCEPT that evry one of Lee’s horses could be used in just abnout any wasy you needed! I hadn’t thought about Lee in some years until last week when I watched Part 2 of the Horseman’s Reunion on Chris Cox’s program. Ken May was highlighted. He learned from Lee. Mr May was also one of Chris Cox’s teachers. Forgive me for the memories!
Have you ever rodeoed? Barrel Raced? Team Roped? Worked 10,000 head of cattle in cutting allies (in, by, ship, keep, etc)? If you have, then you KNOW horses do make mistakes, just as people do. Sometimes it’s the peoples fault, not always. Horses are thinking animals. .And they do make the same mistakes in their jobs. Some horses are smarter than others, just like people and dogs. So I have to disagree with you about the mistakes. Ever watch Cutting horses? After that rider drops his/her hand, that horse is making decisions. The riders still ‘cue’ them with their legs, but the hore is making the decisions about what that cow is going to do – until the rider picks his/her hand up!
Do you have kids? Do you NEVER have to correct them? I’m not comparing kids to horses, but a lot of the same principles apply
Alisa’s cowboy will understand exactly what I’ve said! Don’t ever underestimate the intelligence of an animal.
And as far as the temperment of Chris and Clinton’s horses, you are seeing something I saw in the Buck movie alot!
I’m sure that I’m several years older than you. I learned the old cowboy way, and when it didn’t work for me, I found others to show me different ways. I admire all these men. But I admire Lee and Ray Hunt even more. They were way ahead of their time.
Maybe sometime I will tell you about the smartest horse I ever rode. But that’s a story for another time!
Dee-
I’m not going to argue with you. It’s obvious to me that we’re coming from two different places. And like I said before, it is MY opinion, and my thoughts. I’ve been making a living from a horse in some way, shape or form for almost 25 years. I also never said animals were not smart. I’m not sure where that came from.
I am going to say this however. I have competed in rodeos. I was so good at it in fact, I got a full scholarship to college to do so. And while I was in college I rode reined cow horses, and cutters. And when I got out of college, I trained barrel horses for a living, and now, as a rancher, I still continue to make my living from the back of my horse (and I still run barrels and rope). If my success with my horses were simply measured by the number of competitions I’d won, according to you, I’m not successful. Clearly we have different goals, and clearly, if someone isn’t winning competitions (in your book) that person isn’t successful. That’s fine if that is how you choose to measure success. I choose to measure it by how happy my horses are, my clients are, and how much my horses improve from one day to the next. I have done all of the above, and I’m still willing to take full responsibility for any shortcoming my horses have in a competition. Didn’t see that first barrel- well then I need to work on my timing. Shouldered in on the second, I am not doing enough to prepare him to get round, stay round, and I’m probably asking more of him than he’s ready to give me. Didn’t stop before we asked for the turn on that cow, well then I need to take more time to prepare him for the job. It’s a difference in life philosophy. Again, my horse didn’t make a mistake. I did. I’m not saying (AND NEVER SAID) horses (or cows or any other animal) aren’t smart. But they’re not people. And IMO we don’t do them any favors by treating them as such. Again, my opinion. This forum isn’t a place for a debate about how you’re better and older and wiser than I. Please feel free to email me if you think this conversation should be continued.
As for children, I do not have any of my own. But my cowboy has two, so I’m a stepmother and an aunt who has a niece that lives with us during the summer. You can correct your children, but if you’re aware, and ahead of the situation in which they may find themselves the situation may be change/altered so the outcome is what you want- without making a big deal out of the correction. Set it up and wait- same thing I’d do with a colt. You can discipline and encourage or you can discipline and discourage. We do very little in the way of discipline because we’re aware enough of where they are to stay on this side of trouble. Someday, I will have my own child and I see how well-behaved his are, so I have no reason to doubt that his methods as they apply to our horses, cattle, and the kids aren’t going to work.
Where Buck is concerned, he doesn’t need me to defend him. So I’m not going to. You are entitled to your opinion of him. But I will tell you he does compete on his horses (just not in the events you’re used to seeing- because he doesn’t care to do that), he also ranches and uses his horses on his ranch. For someone that claims to have respect for the man, you sure didn’t have one nice thing to say about him.
You may or may not know that Ray Hunt’s grandson starts a large percentage of the cutting horses that make it to the NCHA futurity every year. My point being, just because someone doesn’t go show or compete doesn’t make one better than another. I know plenty of handy people- that don’t go compete, who have horses that could do anything you needed to do/wanted to do on them. I said it before and it obviously needs to be said again: Do what you believe in, or believe in what you do. What works for you works for you and there’s nothing wrong with that.
SD Cowgirl, Congrads on the scholarship. That isn’t an easy accomplishment! Like I said before, & now know for sure, I’m what older than you. Rodeo Scholarships were not available when I weren’t to college and a girl in ag wasn’t heard of, so I broke some new ground. Like you, I’ve done all of that for about 40 yrs, until cancer made riding something I dream about now. But I can still see
know very well the fine points I’m seeing, what a horse is or isn’t do
right or the rider. As you know, you don’t have to be on them top know what is going on.
I wasn’t trying to insult toy, as you seem to have taken.
Your not the only that’s been down that road, long as it is. Opinions and results – my only point!
What Jenn (thesdcowgirl) said! It’s a natural horsemanship principle. Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard to accomplish. And let it be the horse’s decision to take the easy path.
I like this, but then again I’m a girl who’s always thought of relationships and horses in the same way- my best friend and I always say that you have to treat a man like a horse!! Haha to what degree that’s true depends on the cowboy I guess. Good luck to you and your cowboy, I always love to hear about the ups and downs and lessons learned!
Without ups and downs life would be flat as old soda pop…
Original quote from yours truly: When working with a man or a horse, you gotta take things slow and easy. You can’t rush a good thing.
I am laughing at your picture at the top. A girl in capris pants and a dairy cow….Hmm
As a fellow cattle and horse “nut” (thanks to my husband for the word choice), I also have to say that your cowboy’s logic/analogy is sound and holds quite well with prey animal psychology.
Thanks for making me smile.
Anne
LOL, Anne. Glad you noticed the capris. I realize the woman in that picture actually LOOKS GOOD in them. She is also model-thin.
Sigh.
I’m reading all this from the perspective of 80 years of living and learning, 51 of those of living and loving THE man and working with him and cattle. Maybe because we were so young when we started out and so new to each other and to taking care of cattle and learning about them, it never felt like leading or pushing. Our relationship was so 50-50, which meant sometimes it was also 10-80 one way, sometimes the other way, sometimes 40-60, sometimes even 99-1, etc. It could go either way. Guess it was often the same with the cattle. We loved, and we learned, and it all just seemed to work right. Guess we were lucky, or fools, or crazy, but it worked, and damn, it was fun. He’s been gone 11 years now and I still miss him so much it hurts and I will always love him. And if that sounds corny, maybe it is, but it’s true. And, your cowboy’s right, ‘pushing’ never worked well with him or the cattle.
You are so right! Isn’t amazing how much we learn as we grow older? It becomes easier to understand everyday the old saying “Youth is wasted on the young!” If we’d only had the knowledge we have now when we were young, just think how many less mistakes we’d have made and how much more we would have enjoyed and appreciated just what we had and where we were each step in life!
So true, Dee!
Always a good read. We had some good chats at the ranch this weekend about the horse/human lead/push/follow idea. Between our backgrounds me and my cowboy talk for ages about this one. One of the big things that I’ve learned is you’ve gotta be calm within yourself/have good energy before you can ask any animal to come to/with you.
Fantastic column and lead vs drive is something that a lot of people need to learn…. cowboys have it right!
Thanks, Janice! It took me a while to figure it out, but what the cowboy showed me sure was a big dose of wisdom…
If you were on the ranch, he’d take you out to the field and show you exactly what he meant. Hands on learning rocks!
Yes, hands on learning rocks — especially when it’s his hands on me.
Remember the cow weighs 1300 pounds (give or take a 100) the man weighs 170 to 200. The cow can actually do whatever they want. It is a choice they make that being led is safe and a good choice.
And on our farm usually means food.